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The Pioneer Woman Magazine: Pioneering Its Way To A Phenomenal Debut And Proving That The Power Of Print Is Stronger Than Ever – The Mr. Magazine™ Interview With Vicki Wellington, Vice President, Publisher & Chief Revenue Officer And Maile Carpenter, Editor In Chief, The Pioneer Woman Magazine…

June 28, 2017

NEW YORK, NY – JUNE 06: (L-R) Vicki Wellington, Ree Drummond, and Maile Carpenter attend The Pioneer Woman Magazine Celebration with Ree Drummond at The Mason Jar on June 6, 2017 in New York City. (Photo by Monica Schipper/Getty Images for The Pioneer Woman Magazine)

“We’re never done climbing the mountain, Samir, you know that. (Laughs) Ever. And I’ll tell you what I love, and I feel this maybe more than I did back when we launched Food Network, everybody is rooting for us. Everyone is so excited that we have this great news. And Ree (Drummond) as well. I just feel there is a lot of positive energy around us, wherever we are. Whether we’re inside Hearst; Michael (Clinton) said it better than anybody, this company is very much print-proud.” Vicki Wellington…

“We talked about this in the past; a magazine is such an intimate experience. It is so perfect for her brand. As I said, she has such a great connection with her fans, and the idea of spending this precious “me” time with Ree really happens in the magazine. It’s different from the other platforms. Her blog is amazing, and you get all of these personal details, so that’s incredibly successful in its own right. But a magazine is something that you can sit back and really fall into.” Maile Carpenter…

The Pioneer Woman Magazine: A Mr. Magazine™ Launch Story

At the beginning of June, The Pioneer Woman Magazine debuted at Wal-Mart, the retailer where Ree Drummond, who is the “Pioneer Woman” has her line of cookware, dinnerware and home products sold. Initial distribution of the Hearst Magazines’ premiere issue was 150,000 copies. Mere weeks later, the magazine was nearly sold out and went back to press for another 100,000 copies. Can we say – wow! The power of print brings another facet to an already successful brand.

Vicki Wellington is publisher of the new magazine and Maile Carpenter is editor in chief. These two ladies are a proven team, having launched the Food Network Magazine with amazing success. Now, at the helm of this latest Hearst print endeavor, an immediate grand slam is no surprise to anyone, especially Mr. Magazine™.

I spoke recently with Vicki and Maile, and we talked about The Pioneer Woman, both the magazine and the living, breathing human being. Although, in all honesty, Mr. Magazine™ couldn’t tell the difference between the two, as the ink on paper reflects the person so beautifully.

It’s an intimately personal and connected look at Ree Drummond and her family, but more importantly at her lifestyle. And according to Vicki and Maile, it’s something her fans have readily accepted and that was long overdue for the woman who has shown many people a unique and exciting way of life.

As for Hearst’s involvement, it has been my experience in watching the company and in how they handle new launches, and their portfolio in general; the folks absolutely know what they’re doing. They’ve been bullish about print forever, even when most everyone else was buying headstones in the ink on paper cemetery. But Hearst never gave up on the power of the printed word, and to this day still proclaims it the core of their business. As does Vicki and Maile. So, who better to head up The Pioneer Woman than two ladies who “put the wagons in a circle” and headed out on their own print journey a few years back, when most everyone else was boarding the cyberspace connection?

So, without further ado, here is the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Vicki Wellington and Maile Carpenter as they share their excitement about Hearst’s latest print success story: The Pioneer Woman Magazine.

But first, the sound-bites:

On how the magazine came into being (Maile Carpenter): We’ve been working with Ree (Drummond) for years through the Food Network. Ellen Levine gets credit here, because she noticed a couple of years ago that Ree just had such huge appeal with people, and Ellen said then that we should keep an eye on her. And sure enough, Ellen did, and had some conversations with Ree, and now here we are.

On how Maile’s editing approach differed from the Food Network Magazine to The Pioneer Woman (Maile Carpenter): It’s always different when something is based on a person than when it’s based on a brand. It presents different possibilities. What’s great about Ree is she has such a clear vision and such a clear brand. Her following is there and it’s strong. So, we really had a very good sense of who she is when we started.

On whether Vicki has any preference or inner struggle when it comes to selling ads for the Food Network Magazine versus The Pioneer Woman (Vicki Wellington): As you know, I have two girls in real life, and I love them both equally, but they’re both very different girls. And Maile actually has two girls as well. So, when it comes to the two magazines, I really feel exactly that. I literally call them the big girl and the baby; that’s actually what I say here at work. So, you know what? No, they’re totally different girls; they have different needs, and we love them both, but they’re two, completely different kids. That may sound funny, but it’s actually true.

On the advertisers reaction when Vicki first starting meeting with them about the first issue of The Pioneer Woman and whether it was different than when she first started selling the Food Network Magazine (Vicki Wellington): It was different. When we started with Food Network, the world was a mess and people sort of questioned whether the Food Network Magazine would really be a success. Now, I think we walk in with great credibility and they know that our editors have created this fantastic magazine, right on brand, that continues to sell amazingly well on newsstand and to subscribers with renewals. So, now I think we walk in as really credible, experienced people, where there’s very little risk, to be honest. And what was neat about this, which I’d never done before and is kind of interesting, we limited the number of ads that we took, because it was all about the edit and the content and how consumers would react to the content. So, we brought in a limited number and we couldn’t fit everybody in. It was a nice strategy and people were really dying to get in the magazine.

On the ad focus for the second issue (Vicki Wellington): With our second issue, we will be accepting more advertisements, but we’ll be limiting them as well. When we were out selling the first issue, we sold them both at the same time, which is really an advantage for the advertisers. So, a lot of it was presold in the very beginning. What’s neat is now you see it’s a huge success, as you said we went back to press for another 100,000, the feedback and the early research has been phenomenal.

On the role the printed magazine plays within The Pioneer Woman’s already successful brand (Maile Carpenter): We talked about this in the past; a magazine is such an intimate experience. It is so perfect for her brand. As I said, she has such a great connection with her fans, and the idea of spending this precious “me” time with Ree really happens in the magazine. It’s different from the other platforms. Her blog is amazing, and you get all of these personal details, so that’s incredibly successful in its own right. But a magazine is something that you can sit back and really fall into.

On the fact that Hearst still holds that print is the core foundation of its business, while others continue to doubt the power of print (Vicki Wellington): Let me just say, and you know how I feel about this, and I feel like this is true of the press in many ways; it’s always so much more exciting to jump on the negative, and to jump on the things that are going badly. And I’ve always thought this. We’ve had this amazing story from the very second that we started, yet it’s not always interesting to the press. And I don’t know why, because it really should be.

On whether Maile feels as though she’s reached the top of the mountain with The Pioneer Woman (Maile Carpenter): I will say that creatively it’s been like, as we all said, adding a new baby to the family, but for all of us it’s been so fun and exciting to work on another brand. It’s helped both. It’s helped us define ourselves at Food Network, and know who we are, and when funny story ideas come up, we know that they’re exactly right for Food Network.

On whether Vicki feels as though she’s reached the top of the mountain with The Pioneer Woman (Vicki Wellington): We’re never done climbing the mountain, Samir, you know that. (Laughs) Ever. And I’ll tell you what I love, and I feel this maybe more than I did back when we launched Food Network, everybody is rooting for us. Everyone is so excited that we have this great news. And Ree as well. I just feel there is a lot of positive energy around us, wherever we are. Whether we’re inside Hearst; Michael said it better than anybody, this company is very much print-proud. But we’re out in the community. Clients, everybody is excited for Ree.

On what’s next for The Pioneer Woman (Vicki Wellington): Well, we have a second issue to put out, which obviously, everyone will do a beautiful job on. And we’re doing a lot of research; we’re checking consumer feedback, which again, just the first 20 days are crazy off the charts. Obviously, Michael (Clinton), David (Carey), and ourselves, will make a decision about our next steps. Again, we’re feeling bullish, but you know how the company is; they’re smart, and slow and steady wins the race; we’ll check all of the consumer research make sure that this is something that people really want, and we’ll take it from there.

On why they think more publishers aren’t doing what Hearst does when it comes to new print publications (Vicki Wellington): I honestly don’t know that answer, it’s hard to know what goes on in other families, it really is. I really don’t know the answer. I’m just glad we’re here.

On why they think more publishers aren’t doing what Hearst does when it comes to new print publications (Maile Carpenter): I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. Hearst knows how to launch magazines and puts the support behind them in the right places.

On anything else they’d like to add (Vicki Wellington): I will just say that with The Pioneer Woman, the feedback that we got was great. But not only on the food front, which we would expect, of course, but also the feedback that readers seemed to love when we showed pieces about the ranch and her family, and her life beyond. Right now the magazine has about 33 percent food, so it’s much more of a lifestyle, plus everything else. And we’re excited that the feedback came back so positively on these other fronts.

On anything else they’d like to add (Maile Carpenter): We’ve just been so happy with how closely we’re working with Ree. Like I said, you never know when you start something, but she’s been so great to work with, and she has such clear vision. It’s been really fun and exciting to work with her, and see her creativity at work. She really touches every page.

On breaking new ground with non-endemic ads or new advertisers in The Pioneer Woman (Vicki Wellington): I think the L’Oréal piece was good. They came in very early on, an exclusive beauty advertiser, actually in both of our issues. They’re running many different kinds of ads, and I think they got it. They got it early on, they were excited about it. So, I think that might have been a surprise for people.

On whether either of them are a “pioneer woman” themselves (Maile Carpenter): Well, Ree gave me a pair of cowboy boots, so now I am, I guess. (Laughs) I’m pioneering my way through the city. (Laughs again).

On whether either of them are a “pioneer woman” themselves (Vicki Wellington): You know what, I’m not. I’m definitely not a pioneer woman, but here’s the neat thing, and this is why I get it. I see how great it is to lift the veil and see what a life would be like that’s so completely different from my own. And I love that.

On what they would have tattooed upon their brain that would be there forever and no one could ever forget about them (Vicki Wellington): For me, it would be “fight on.” Keep on moving; keep on climbing the mountain. Keep moving ahead; keep the positivity moving forward. I try not to involve my brain with all the craziness of our world and our country, and life in general. I just come in everyday to this amazingly beautiful Tower and I’m excited to be here and to see my team. And I’m excited to work with Maile and her team. So, fight on and keep it going.

On what they would have tattooed upon their brain that would be there forever and no one could ever forget about them (Maile Carpenter): Mine would be “to always be authentic.” That’s the magic of Ree and we’re all learning that from her and reminding ourselves when we work with her of how important it is to be authentic and true to yourself.

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Vicki Wellington, vice president, publisher & chief revenue officer and Maile Carpenter, editor in chief, The Pioneer Woman Magazine.

Samir Husni: I understand The Pioneer Woman is going for a second printing, so let’s begin with our last conversation. The last time we talked, both you and Maile hinted that something was brewing. At that time, you couldn’t really tell me anything except that something was going to happen. And lo and behold, The Pioneer Woman Magazine was born. And I read the letter that both of you wrote that basically said: here’s a woman who had everything but a magazine. And now, we all have the magazine.

Vicki Wellington: Yes, we do have the magazine. I can let Maile tell you about how we got it up and running, and I can certainly talk a little about the feedback and success.

Maile Carpenter: We’ve been working with Ree (Drummond) for years through the Food Network. Ellen Levine gets credit here, because she noticed a couple of years ago that Ree just had such huge appeal with people, and Ellen said then that we should keep an eye on her. And sure enough, Ellen did, and had some conversations with Ree, and now here we are.

What’s interesting about Ree, and I think what makes her so successful, is that she really built her following from the ground up, one person at a time. She was one of the original mom-bloggers, and she cares deeply about every single person who follows her. She really does reach out to them and has conversations with them, so this isn’t the same as having someone who launches a television celebrity, who then begins talking to people on social media. Ree really knows the people intimately and they know her, and they feel a very personal connection to her. And we’re seeing what that does. They just love everything that she does; they want to be a part of her life and they could not be more excited to have a magazine based on her. We’re getting such a great response from people. They’re going to multiple stores to find a copy.

Vicki Wellington: We saw a first issue selling on eBay for $40. We had a few others, but how funny is that?

Samir Husni: Maile, as you put the first issue together, and you’ve been editing the Food Network Magazine for some time now; how did your approach to The Pioneer Woman differ from your approach to the Food Network brand?

Maile Carpenter: It’s always different when something is based on a person than when it’s based on a brand. It presents different possibilities. What’s great about Ree is she has such a clear vision and such a clear brand. Her following is there and it’s strong. So, we really had a very good sense of who she is when we started.

The other great thing is she is super-involved. You never know when you go into something like this, how much time a person is going to have to put into it, but she’s been amazing. With every, single page she’s been involved. Picking out every item, the headlines and the decks and the stories. She’s writing for the magazine and providing images; this is truly hers. And people will accept that because they know her so well and have a very personal connection to her. They would know if it wasn’t hers. (Laughs) It has to be authentic. She is truly authentic, and people know that about her.

Samir Husni: Vicki, this is the new baby, but do you have any preference? When you’re selling the Food Network Magazine versus when you’re selling The Pioneer Woman; is there any inner struggle when it comes to getting ads for the magazines, in choosing one over the other?

Vicki Wellington: As you know, I have two girls in real life, and I love them both equally, but they’re both very different girls. And Maile actually has two girls as well. So, when it comes to the two magazines, I really feel exactly that. I literally call them the big girl and the baby; that’s actually what I say here at work. So, you know what? No, they’re totally different girls; they have different needs, and we love them both, but they’re two, completely different kids. That may sound funny, but it’s actually true.

Samir Husni: Can you relive that moment when you first started meeting with advertisers and talking about the magazine; did you get the same reaction from them as when you introduced the Food Network Magazine or was it different?

Vicki Wellington: It was different. When we started with Food Network, the world was a mess and people sort of questioned whether the Food Network Magazine would really be a success. Now, I think we walk in with great credibility and they know that our editors have created this fantastic magazine, right on brand, that continues to sell amazingly well on newsstand and to subscribers with renewals. So, now I think we walk in as really credible, experienced people, where there’s very little risk, to be honest.

And of course, as Maile said, interestingly, Ree started from this social platform when nobody was on social. So, if they needed to know who she was and what she was doing, they could go right on her blog and find out. You could see her taking her kid and looking for colleges, like we all do. You could see her bringing out sandwiches to her son and the whole baseball team. You can see all of these things and you also see her fans responding back and forth with her. So, I believe people get the relationship right away. That, combined with the credibility of what we’ve already done; I think this was easier, much easier. It really was.

And what was neat about this, which I’d never done before and is kind of interesting, we limited the number of ads that we took, because it was all about the edit and the content and how consumers would react to the content. So, we brought in a limited number and we couldn’t fit everybody in. It was a nice strategy and people were really dying to get in the magazine. We didn’t do that with Food Network; we didn’t do that with Domino, but we did it here and it was really nice and encouraging to see the great interest from advertisers to get in on the action.

Samir Husni: What’s the focus for the second issue?

Vicki Wellington: With our second issue, we will be accepting more advertisements, but we’ll be limiting them as well. When we were out selling the first issue, we sold them both at the same time, which is really an advantage for the advertisers. So, a lot of it was presold in the very beginning. What’s neat is now you see it’s a huge success, as you said we went back to press for another 100,000, the feedback and the early research has been phenomenal. So, anybody coming into the second issue should run and sprint to get in, honestly. Seriously, because they’re getting such a sure thing.

Samir Husni: Maile, you write in the introductory letter that you felt it was high time that Ree had a magazine too. From an editor’s point of view, what role does the printed magazine play within The Pioneer Woman’s already successful brand?

Maile Carpenter: We talked about this in the past; a magazine is such an intimate experience. It is so perfect for her brand. As I said, she has such a great connection with her fans, and the idea of spending this precious “me” time with Ree really happens in the magazine. It’s different from the other platforms. Her blog is amazing, and you get all of these personal details, so that’s incredibly successful in its own right. But a magazine is something that you can sit back and really fall into.

And her images, she photographs her ranch in the most beautiful ways. People have been seeing these images on her blog, and we’re able to really fall into them in print and tell stories from her ranch. I think the magazine is such a nice format for her. And as I said, her fans want so much to be a part of her life, and they want her in every possible form. And it’s not like they’re choosing a medium; they want her on TV; they want her blog; they want everything they can get. And the magazine was just the right piece. We’re already seeing the results.

Vicki Wellington: The results are just phenomenal. I can’t share them just yet, because they’re so early, but from what I understand, this company has not seen results like this in a long time. So, we’re very bullish.

Samir Husni: Vicki, tell me, when I interviewed Michael Clinton recently, he said that print is still the core business at Hearst. Yet, we see so many other companies and so many articles out there still doubting the power of print. From a publisher’s point of view, what’s your secret sauce? What are you doing differently at Hearst?

Vicki Wellington: Before the secret sauce, let me just say, and you know how I feel about this, and I feel like this is true of the press in many ways; it’s always so much more exciting to jump on the negative, and to jump on the things that are going badly. And I’ve always thought this. We’ve had this amazing story from the very second that we started, yet it’s not always interesting to the press. And I don’t know why, because it really should be.

And honestly, it’s Maile and her team. From the minute I met Maile, her only care has been about the reader. What does the reader want? What is the reader looking for? And she asks this in every meeting we have; how about the reader? And I think, because she’s executed it so perfectly, it’s easy and a pleasure to market and sell something like that. She makes our job easy. So, I think it’s about her getting the product right.

You look at this magazine, our baby, and you look at our big girl, and they look nothing alike. But the same team, the same small team, put both of these products together and they’re right on brand, and they look nothing alike. So, I think that says a lot.

Maile Carpenter: Our creative director, Deirdre Koribanick, is amazing. Her secret; she always talks about this, she has since we launched, is about being able to open a magazine to any page and know what magazine you’re in. And if you can open to different sections and they look entirely different, then you haven’t successfully created a single design method. And I think that she’s been so great in both magazines in unifying the look.

Samir Husni: Maile, have you reached the top of the mountain?

Maile Carpenter: I will say that creatively it’s been like, as we all said, adding a new baby to the family, but for all of us it’s been so fun and exciting to work on another brand. It’s helped both. It’s helped us define ourselves at Food Network, and know who we are, and when funny story ideas come up, we know that they’re exactly right for Food Network.

Vicki Wellington: We’re never done climbing the mountain, Samir, you know that. (Laughs) Ever. And I’ll tell you what I love, and I feel this maybe more than I did back when we launched Food Network, everybody is rooting for us. Everyone is so excited that we have this great news. And Ree as well. I just feel there is a lot of positive energy around us, wherever we are. Whether we’re inside Hearst; Michael said it better than anybody, this company is very much print-proud. But we’re out in the community. Clients, everybody is excited for Ree.

We had a party for her to celebrate the premier issue, and we had people come from hours away. We had a client who took their private jet and flew in for this party. Ree was there, her family, which was actually really neat. And you’ll see her daughter in the magazine, and her handsome, cowboy husband is so excited about the magazine. But I just think everybody is rooting for it, so it feels good. It feels good to have a new baby that everybody wants to see succeed.

Samir Husni: So, what’s next?

Vicki Wellington: Well, we have a second issue to put out, which obviously, everyone will do a beautiful job on. And we’re doing a lot of research; we’re checking consumer feedback, which again, just the first 20 days are crazy off the charts. Obviously, Michael (Clinton), David (Carey), and ourselves, will make a decision about our next steps. Again, we’re feeling bullish, but you know how the company is; they’re smart, and slow and steady wins the race; we’ll check all of the consumer research make sure that this is something that people really want, and we’ll take it from there.

That said, we’re proud of everything we’ve done, as we always are, of the product we represent and the new baby. And we’re proud of our big girl. We don’t talk about our big girl, but we’re turning 10. We have a birthday next year in 2018, which it went by like a minute, but it’s a big birthday for us.

Samir Husni: Every time I speak with David or Michael, there’s something new brewing. It seems like you’re always having a baby right after the new baby has been born, especially this year as you had almost twins with The Pioneer Woman and Airbnbmag.

Vicki Wellington: But they’re very different kids, as you know. They’re in our family, so think of them as cousins. (Laughs)

Samir Husni: (Laughs too).

Vicki Wellington: Born around the same time; they hang out a little bit, but born to different families.

Samir Husni: With the true “Rose Garden” picture that you’ve painted, why do you think that only a few other publishers are doing what Hearst is doing?

Vicki Wellington: I honestly don’t know that answer, it’s hard to know what goes on in other families, it really is. I really don’t know the answer. I’m just glad we’re here.

Maile Carpenter: Yes, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. Hearst knows how to launch magazines and puts the support behind them in the right places.

Vicki Wellington: And we love the joint venture teams. Again, we have our family and we have their family; combined, we have so many more assets together. I don’t see anybody else doing that, but it’s a wonderful thing that we’ve got this extended group of knowledgeable, smart people, with again, a very positive culture, able to help.

For example, when we put out the premiere issue, we supported it at Hearst, obviously, and across Hearst Digital in many ways, but of course, Scripps supported it in a huge way. So, again, I feel like everybody doesn’t get that kind of advantage.

Samir Husni: Any stumbling blocks that you’ve ran into?

Vicki Wellington: Not right now, Sir.

Maile Carpenter: We need more hours in the day. (Laughs)

Vicki Wellington: We’re busy, that’s for sure. But we can’t complain about that; we really can’t.

Samir Husni: Is there anything else that either of you would like to add?

Vicki Wellington: I will just say that with The Pioneer Woman, the feedback that we got was great. But not only on the food front, which we would expect, of course, but also the feedback that readers seemed to love when we showed pieces about the ranch and her family, and her life beyond. Right now the magazine has about 33 percent food, so it’s much more of a lifestyle, plus everything else. And we’re excited that the feedback came back so positively on these other fronts.

Maile Carpenter: We’ve just been so happy with how closely we’re working with Ree. Like I said, you never know when you start something, but she’s been so great to work with, and she has such clear vision. It’s been really fun and exciting to work with her, and see her creativity at work. She really touches every page.

Samir Husni: As I look at the ads in the first issue, did you feel that you broke any new ground? I remember in the past, you and I had talked about getting new advertisers, non-endemic advertisers in the Food Network Magazine. How about in The Pioneer Woman?

Vicki Wellington: I think the L’Oréal piece was good. They came in very early on, an exclusive beauty advertiser, actually in both of our issues. They’re running many different kinds of ads, and I think they got it. They got it early on, they were excited about it. So, I think that might have been a surprise for people.

Samir Husni: If someone asked either of you if you were a “pioneer woman,” what would you say?

Maile Carpenter: Well, Ree gave me a pair of cowboy boots, so now I am, I guess. (Laughs) I’m pioneering my way through the city. (Laughs again).

Samir Husni: (Laughs too).

Vicki Wellington: You know what, I’m not. I’m definitely not a pioneer woman, but here’s the neat thing, and this is why I get it. I see how great it is to lift the veil and see what a life would be like that’s so completely different from my own. And I love that.

Maile Carpenter: No, but you are, Vicki. This is the thing; I love Ree’s editor’s letter, and did not change a single word of it, she turned it in exactly as it appears in the magazine, word for word. And it was about how we’re all pioneer women, no matter where we happen to live or what we’re going through in life. I thought it was a nice way to see things. And I think Vicki is a pioneer woman.

(Everyone Laughs).

Samir Husni: I always thought Vicki was a pioneer woman.

Vicki Wellington: I’m an urban pioneer woman, perhaps. Again, I think it’s like a kind of fantasy. It’s an opposite life from mine, but it would be so cool for me to pop on a neat pair of blue cowboy boots and go out on the ranch. I don’t know how long I could live; I might die within 48 hours. (Laughs) But I think it would be exciting to try. For me, that’s how I look at it.

Samir Husni: I’ll give you eight hours, Vicki. (Laughs)

Vicki Wellington: My husband might give me four hours. (Laughs too)

Maile Carpenter: It’s really an incredible experience to go out to Oklahoma. Everyone is trying to sign up for the next trip when we shoot out there. It’s breathtaking. It’s just so beautiful.

Samir Husni: My new last question to you both; if you could have one thing tattooed upon your brain that no one would ever forget about you, what would it be?

Vicki Wellington: For me, it would be “fight on.” Keep on moving; keep on climbing the mountain. Keep moving ahead; keep the positivity moving forward. I try not to involve my brain with all the craziness of our world and our country, and life in general. I just come in everyday to this amazingly beautiful Tower and I’m excited to be here and to see my team. And I’m excited to work with Maile and her team. So, fight on and keep it going.

Maile Carpenter: Mine would be “to always be authentic.” That’s the magic of Ree and we’re all learning that from her and reminding ourselves when we work with her of how important it is to be authentic and true to yourself.

Vicki Wellington: And that’s the secret of Maile’s editing success, it really is. For both magazines. Her honest, authentic genuineness.

Samir Husni: Thank you both.

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